BPsite Forums

BPSITE => BPSITE Headquarters => Topic started by: SS on June 12, 2004, 03:59:57 PM



Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 03:59:57 PM
So I've just uploaded the next version of BPSITE.

Unfortunately I did it in CF, so it requires a redirect screen at the start.
I'll probably figure out a PHP include thing to avoid that, at some stage.

The main difference with the previous version is that it now has six styles, which means no-one can complain about the darkness anymore, and I also don't need to completely remove my lovely 3d forest camp style. :)

I have an annoying feeling inside me that I've got a major error hiding within the site, somewhere, so could everyone please scour all over looking for any bugs, and if/when you find it/them, post here what/where and which browser you're using.

Feel free to give any comments or criticisms here too.

:asha'man/r:www.bpsite.co.uk (http://www.bpsite.co.uk/):asha'man/l:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 12, 2004, 04:46:35 PM
aw, no more fireplace! :(


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 04:51:20 PM
The fireplace one is still there: bottom left on the styles page.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 12, 2004, 04:54:50 PM
oooh, i see it! now when is the forums gonna be updated :D


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 04:56:52 PM
Good question.

*checks IPB website*


Oooh! OOOH! They've released PDR 4!

That's the one I've been waiting for. :D


*goes to read & make sure it's the right one*


Gah, they still haven't included the update path from v1. :cry:


Hmmm, two weeks ago they the final thing should be ready around the middle of June, so I'll wait another week and see what happens.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 12, 2004, 05:20:57 PM
what's with all these delays? :cry:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 05:44:20 PM
Development work always has delays. Always.

You'd think, with all the work we do, developers would actually be able to predict them, but there's always one or two that jumps up when you're not expecting it. (http://www.bpsite.co.uk/forums/html/emoticons/plain.gif)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Rug on June 12, 2004, 06:17:47 PM
This only occurs when the page isnt maximised, but happens on all pages in the default style:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 06:25:23 PM
:huh: What browser?

Doesn't happen here on IE or Firefox, except on the Style page if it's narrower than ~850px. :/

-

(Just semi-fixed the Style page... still overlaps if too narrow, but it's not unreadable.)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 12, 2004, 07:14:19 PM
Your typing speed test doesnt work...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 07:20:31 PM
Doesn't work in what way? You are using IE and have JavaScript enabled, yes?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Perdition on June 12, 2004, 07:37:10 PM
you should make the duck a style option :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 07:41:37 PM
It's too narrow. :/


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 12, 2004, 07:44:30 PM
Im using Mozilla.. IE is for neive people and Microsoft lovers... Not that there is much difference...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 07:47:22 PM
Quote
IE is for neive people and Microsoft lovers...
And people that want my typing thing to work.

Mozilla doesn't support the contenteditable attribute, and I'm not writing a tonne of specialist JavaScript just for people that insist on only using a certain browser. :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 12, 2004, 08:23:58 PM
Fine then :P
Atleast put a warning telling people you need to use IE...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 12, 2004, 08:28:05 PM
Wow, I hit 65wpm having to go back and search all the way through what I had written to discover I had added a word in to make the sentance correct.... Bloody brain.


You scored: 115wpm.


Thats better.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 08:37:22 PM
Quote
Atleast put a warning telling people you need to use IE...
Quote
The test will not work if your browser does not support the CONTENTEDITABLE attribute of the DIV tag (Currently only Internet Explorer 5.5 and 6.0 support this). It also requires JavaScript to be enabled.


Quote
I had added a word in to make the sentance correct
Which sentence? Shouldn't be any mistakes in there. :miffed:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 12, 2004, 08:54:28 PM
Yea, but whos gonna bother to click help?


It was on the random words one, many of them make a sentance with a word missing, so my brain was filling in the gaps and making me type a word there.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 12, 2004, 09:11:12 PM
Quote
Yea, but whos gonna bother to click help?
People who need it, and have the intelligence to check. ;)


Quote
It was on the random words one, many of them make a sentance with a word missing, so my brain was filling in the gaps and making me type a word there.
Ah. It's quite cool how it sometimes makes sense. :D


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on June 13, 2004, 04:24:30 AM
SS- really cool styles.  Now then, is there any content that I would need..... lemme check!  LOL  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 13, 2004, 03:33:29 PM
that typing speed is annoying.  i do the same as ripper and also why can't it just regognize a lower case i? :hmmm:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 13, 2004, 03:53:36 PM
Quote
why can't it just regognize a lower case i?
I made the test for myself, and I'm a perfectionist. :P

It would actually take more work to make it ignore case, or whatever, and as it works at the moment it's not a priority for adding new features.

If you keep adding words then don't do the random word one. If you've got any pieces of text you want to use, I can add them in. (So long as they're not copyrighted or anything).


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 13, 2004, 04:01:07 PM
OOH! OOH! I'VE GOT ONE! :D

Quote
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

i'd do really good on that one! :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 13, 2004, 04:04:13 PM
*adds exercise with a few invisible characters randomly inserted*

:devil:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 13, 2004, 05:09:46 PM
How are you supposed to do that??


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Rug on June 13, 2004, 05:28:51 PM
111wpm here. I make a few mistakes, though :(.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 13, 2004, 06:08:37 PM
Quote
How are you supposed to do that??
Do what?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 13, 2004, 09:53:31 PM
Quote
*adds exercise with a few invisible characters randomly inserted*

:devil:
That.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 13, 2004, 10:07:27 PM
Yes, but add the invisible characters or complete the exercise with them?

If the former, it's Alt-0173. It's a hyphen, but is zero-width when not at the end of a line.
If the latter, you don't; that's the idea.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 13, 2004, 10:30:32 PM
Well thats pointless then, wheres the sence in making something you cant complete?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 13, 2004, 10:34:27 PM
It was in response to him suggesting an exercise which he could complete in a matter of seconds...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 25, 2004, 09:29:51 PM
Quote
Good question.

*checks IPB website*


Oooh! OOOH! They've released PDR 4!

That's the one I've been waiting for. :D


*goes to read & make sure it's the right one*


Gah, they still haven't included the update path from v1. :cry:


Hmmm, two weeks ago they the final thing should be ready around the middle of June, so I'll wait another week and see what happens.
is it ready yet? :)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 25, 2004, 10:03:48 PM
Not yet. :(


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on June 26, 2004, 04:58:50 AM
Um... what exactly is changing?  And should I finally see what exactly is on your site?  LOL  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2004, 12:17:24 PM
The forums will eventually be updated, when a stable upgrade is available.

And yes, go look at my site NOW! :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 26, 2004, 09:32:23 PM
lanair! you havn't seen it yet?!?! such a disloyal forum member :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 26, 2004, 09:44:10 PM
Matt, have you seen it? :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 27, 2004, 12:03:35 AM
i've seen it several times.  But you could tell that just by looking at the first page of this thread :)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 27, 2004, 01:24:47 AM
i just looked at the music page...did i have to have just eaten?

EDIT

instant fix i looked closer

Quote
Cradle of Filth
Creed
Opeth
U2


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 01:28:00 AM
Heheh. I bet most people on this forum can probably find an artist they hate and an artist they like on that page. :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 27, 2004, 01:30:02 AM
wow this solar system thing is hypnotic...if im still here in 24 hours having not logged off ive collapsed while waiting for the planets to align


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 01:33:04 AM
LOL

I've no idea if it's even possible for them to line up... I guess it must be, eventually. I'm not going to calculate how long it takes though.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 27, 2004, 01:34:02 AM
blinking ages by the looks of it, i give up! ill do it tomorow  ;) bed time for poor mole...book time :devil:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 27, 2004, 01:37:25 AM
U2 3> CoF


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 01:39:04 AM
What does "3>" mean?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 27, 2004, 01:52:14 AM
Greater than 3?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Perdition on June 27, 2004, 02:02:22 AM
looks like a screwed up <3


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on June 27, 2004, 04:21:58 AM
Um..... where's the solar system thingey?  :miffed:  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 10:09:57 AM
There's a link to it on both hybridchill and on the bpsite dev page.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 27, 2004, 12:17:38 PM
3> would be less than 3...what is <3?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Perdition on June 27, 2004, 12:43:25 PM
<3 is love


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 27, 2004, 12:45:11 PM
This is 3> (Greater than 3) That


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 27, 2004, 01:00:28 PM
...

thats 3 is greater than you idiot


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 01:01:30 PM
*mutters something about stupidity*


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 27, 2004, 09:29:11 PM
Well its not >3 is it.... Thats just wrong...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 27, 2004, 09:40:17 PM
3>x  .....    x is less than 3

3<x    .....  x is greater than 3

end of discussion :hmmm:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 27, 2004, 09:56:10 PM
Not end of discussion.


3 > X ~=~ 3 is greater than X, X is less than 3.
X > 3 ~=~ 3 is less than X, X is greater than 3.
3 < X ~=~ 3 is less than X, X is greater than 3.
X < 3 ~=~ 3 is greater than X, X is less than 3.


I bet your heads hurt now. :devil:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Daimao on June 27, 2004, 10:43:40 PM
Quote
3> is less than 3

3< is greater than 3

end of discussion :hmmm:
LMAO,other way around smartass


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: opperdude on June 27, 2004, 10:49:46 PM
ehm dai... you might wanna recheck that...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on June 28, 2004, 05:27:59 AM
Quote
LMAO,other way around smartass
ROFLMAO..... you got it wrong Dai.  Sure, sharky could have written it like this:

>3 is greater than 3

<3 is less than 3

but he's still correct!  LOL  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Daimao on June 28, 2004, 10:31:15 AM
No he isn't,you're supposed to write it like you did


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 11:50:23 AM
you can write it either way, it doesn't matter :hmmm:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 11:59:08 AM
You can't write it your way, sharky, without qualifying the other side of the relation.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 12:04:18 PM
eh? whaddya mean? i put an x in there! :ph34r:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 12:08:04 PM
/me says nothing and points towards hidden edit logs.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 01:01:04 PM
what edit logs? i don't see them. actually, none of us can see them so you ahve no proof :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 02:34:39 PM
Go check your post again. ;)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 03:50:07 PM
i did and i don't see anything ^_^


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 28, 2004, 05:04:09 PM
*does a jig* i was right  :P  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 05:07:58 PM
Quote
i don't see anything
Maybe you should get your eyes tested then. ;)

(http://www.hybridchill.com/misc/matt_edit.png)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 05:13:59 PM
pfft, you could have just made that picture look like that :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 05:28:05 PM
True. I could also have hacked the database to make it appear that you edited it when you hadn't.

But I didn't. :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on June 28, 2004, 07:12:42 PM
LOL great


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 07:57:08 PM
nononono imeant you could have made that image :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: underruler on June 28, 2004, 08:08:34 PM
I am so confused...what is this thread for.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 28, 2004, 08:26:01 PM
talking about the improved BPsite


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: underruler on June 28, 2004, 08:30:56 PM
I don't get the difference.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 08:37:11 PM
Did you see it before the 12th of June?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: underruler on June 28, 2004, 08:59:56 PM
No...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 09:00:27 PM
Well that's when the new version went live...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Daimao on June 28, 2004, 09:07:40 PM
At least us smart guys SS know how to write it   ;)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 28, 2004, 09:28:12 PM
*tries to decipher what Dai means*

Uh... yeah, smart guys, like me, can write properly. :D


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Daimao on June 28, 2004, 10:05:16 PM
LOL,ok ,maybe ,'s wouldn't have been a bad idea to use in that sentence   :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on June 29, 2004, 07:25:03 AM
Quote
You can't write it your way, sharky, without qualifying the other side of the relation.
Um... no.  Either way, it's not qualified, according to your logic (man, I must want an argument tonight!).  :P

Under- you didn't miss anything.  LOL  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2004, 11:15:45 AM
/me thinks Lanair is deliberately talking crap again. :P

Me
­ v
:asha'man/r::balefire/r: < Lanair


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 29, 2004, 04:28:09 PM
ooh, SS said he's less than lanair LOL


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: matt_the_shark on June 29, 2004, 04:28:22 PM
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Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on June 29, 2004, 04:50:20 PM
Wasnt me?  :paranoid:  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on June 29, 2004, 05:07:32 PM
Quote
ooh, SS said he's less than lanair
Damnit, bitch, that's an arrow! :P


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: underruler on June 29, 2004, 06:49:25 PM
well put some === or ---'s in there.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 05, 2005, 03:22:36 PM
SS! i just went onbpsite (accidently mind you) and getting linked through to hybrid chill, it looks awesome! i got the blood cells stuff and nice job :thumbs-up:


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 09, 2005, 01:54:04 PM
yay! :cool:

I couldn't manage to get that working for me, but I wasn't sure if it was just a cookie issue or not.
Does it change each visit or stay on the red theme now?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 09, 2005, 05:07:53 PM
its stayed on the red theme for me, i couldnt get the random style to work


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 09, 2005, 05:49:44 PM
Hmmm, that suggests it's definitely doing odd things cookie-wise.

Might have a quick look at it over the weekend, but I'm happy that it's working initially. :)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Hornet on September 09, 2005, 09:21:19 PM

Ah, the joys of live headers...  A brief inspection reveals that it randomly chooses a style, which then proceeds to set itself as the default theme via a cookie, and that seems to overrule the random feature.  Also of interest is that you have a 302 rattling around.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on September 11, 2005, 09:05:13 PM
Um... is there anything on the bpsite website worth looking at besides the forums?   :miffed:  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 11, 2005, 10:59:05 PM
the projects page? i liked the launch program if you use yahoo launch


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 12, 2005, 05:55:19 PM
Quote
Ah, the joys of live headers...  A brief inspection reveals that it randomly chooses a style, which then proceeds to set itself as the default theme via a cookie, and that seems to overrule the random feature.
Bah, it should only save the cookie if you select it via the styles page, and even then the Url scope is supposed to take priority, though it obviously isn't. :(

Quote
Also of interest is that you have a 302 rattling around.
Yeah, that's because of my quick-and-easy way of handling multiple domains - everything goes to the root script and gets redirected to the appropriate folder depending on CGI.HTTP_HOST. If/when I can be arsed I'll change it to do things properly.



Quote
Um... is there anything on the bpsite website worth looking at besides the forums?
Nope, not really. But that will be changing soon at some point in the future... I'll be elaborating later this week on my plans. :)


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: smi256 on September 15, 2005, 04:15:05 AM
About the forum, a few people in my programming classes (C and Java) are looking for a place on the net to converse, and yahoo groups are annoying, could we set up in the geek corner?  That’d be awesome, assuming that people will join.
 


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on September 15, 2005, 07:12:28 AM
*Gasp*  More people around!  LOL  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Rug on September 15, 2005, 12:15:20 PM
Quote
About the forum, a few people in my programming classes (C and Java) are looking for a place on the net to converse, and yahoo groups are annoying, could we set up in the geek corner?  That’d be awesome, assuming that people will join.
Isn't that what a forum is for..? =p.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: smi256 on September 15, 2005, 05:50:48 PM
I just thought that it's be odd if a bunch of people setup camp and started talking about *gasp* homework and stuff :unsure:  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 15, 2005, 05:53:58 PM
Quote
About the forum, a few people in my programming classes (C and Java) are looking for a place on the net to converse, and yahoo groups are annoying, could we set up in the geek corner?  That’d be awesome, assuming that people will join.
Definitely, yes - that would be excellent. :)

I've been pondering the splitting of Geek's Corner into a whole forum of itself, concentrating on technical & programming problems, but it's not currently high volume enough to warrant that.
But if you've got a few people that could come post in it then it might be worthwhile.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 16, 2005, 10:21:32 AM
only if their willing to do A2 level maths aswell


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 16, 2005, 03:20:07 PM
What's A2 level maths?
Some spawn of the useless new 6th form AS-level system, or something else?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 16, 2005, 05:24:47 PM
AS is the first year A2 is the second so both is an A level


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 16, 2005, 06:01:39 PM
So does that replace the pure/stats/mechanics modules or just group them?


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: smi256 on September 16, 2005, 08:30:29 PM
What are you talking about?
this is along the lines of me saying I've taken Math4A...


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 16, 2005, 10:01:01 PM
groups them, theyve now called pure, core for some obscure reason (like they need one) and C1, C2 and M1 (mechanics) are first year, C3, S1 and C4? dunno what the final module is.

so 1 AS is worth a half of 1 A2, works out exactly


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: RipperRoo on September 16, 2005, 10:34:02 PM
Statistics, urg, not looking forwards to starting that.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 16, 2005, 10:40:08 PM
isnt it apparently the easiest thing? strikes me as also being the most boring, i looked at the text book for it *motions being sick*


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: SS on September 19, 2005, 01:51:03 PM
Heh. I think we only had to do two pure/core modules, and then two for either stats or mechanics.

I'm guessing for you they've probably moved some of the the basic stats/mechanics into the core modules, which is probably a good thing - I wouldn't have minded doing both statistics and mechanics, but we had to choose one or the other, and I went with stats, which didn't help when I came to do Quantum Computing at university.


smi> A-Level maths - the stuff you do between 16 and 18, before university.


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 19, 2005, 04:30:09 PM
equaviliant to a USA degree


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: smi256 on September 19, 2005, 08:51:15 PM
I'm only guessing, but it sounds like GE, “General Education”.  Either that, or “lower division” classes ;)  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Lord Lanair on September 19, 2005, 11:57:11 PM
Math? *cringe, shudder.*  I hope to take up to calc 2 and maybe statistics in college, but aside from that, no more math for me thanks!  :blink:  


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: Rug on September 19, 2005, 11:59:39 PM
Quote
equaviliant to a USA degree
ROFLMAO


Title: BPSITE4
Post by: mole on September 20, 2005, 06:22:51 PM
im not kidding; so says whitby