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If you dont like political discussion, dont read this thread. Complaining about this thread or posting off topic is an immediate spam warming, or punishment if you currently have warnings.

I'd like to begin with this...

both doesnt work  :rolleyes:

when was this convo? they finished last night

This convo was this evening.

Councillors?  Labor?  :miffed:  

It's prolly some British thing

Yes, because we dont have a fucked up two-party electoral system where the parties are actually the same, with slightly different beards and different names.

No, we have 3. XD

actually theres double digit number of partys your just dont get to hear about the rest of them and some only work in certain areas

British Politics for Foreign Peoples

Labour
Current ruling party.
Leader: Tony Blair
Opinions: They helped the US in Iraq, so no-one likes them.
Aside from that, they've helped repair some of fuck-ups the Conservatives did, whilst in the mean time creating some of their own.

Conservatives (Tories)
Considered main opposition
Leader: Michael Howard
Opinions: They're all twats, so no-one likes them. But they're not in power currently, so people do. Everyone (except the rich & old) hated them during the eighteen years they were in power.

Liberal Democrats (LibDems)
Considered underdogs by many
Leader: Charles Kennedy
Opinions: They've never had a chance to prove if their policies will work, or if they'll be just like the other two circus acts parties. Until very recently (this election), most people didn't even consider them an option.

British National Party (BNP)
The racist fuckwits
Leader: Nick Griffin
Opinions: Almost no-one likes these, they've been compared to the Nazi's. They don't want anything to do with Europe, and want to kick out all the non-British people.

United Kingdom Independance Party (UKIP)
"The BNP in suits."
Leader: Roger Knapman
Opinions: Not quite as racist as the BNP, but they still want Britain seperate from Europe (despite how much the economy depends on Europe), and various other stupid things.

Green Party
Environmental people.
Leaders: Caroline Lucas & Mike Woodin.
Opinions: What do post people think of the environment? They generally think the same way about the Green Party. ie: They just don't care.

Monster Raving Loony Party
Name says it all.
Leader: Alan Howling Lord Hope
Opinions: Well, they're loonies. Not sure there's much more than that.

There are others, particularly in Scotland, Wales & NI, but no-one else that I can be bothered adding.

thanx SS very helpful.

Have the MRLP ever had anyone actually become an MP?

No idea. Doubt it.

If the locals are anything to go by, Conservative Government and Liberal Democract opposition is what we'll be having next, with Labour crying their sorry little fuckwad eyes out.

Thanks SS.  :D

I see there are liberal Kennedys on both sides of the ocean!  LOL  LOL  LOL  

weve had the lib dems in BS for yonks and yonks

Because half the people around here dont vote, and those that do are Lib Dem supporters. :/

Death to liberals!!!  LOL

j/k... kinda

Death to the whole damned crappy system! :P

Anarchist!!!  LOL  

what ever happened to despotism?

Oh that would be fine if I was the one in control. ;)

dont care whos in charge as long as im the puppeteer  ;)  

Blah. I aint having your hand up my arse!

nah thats only dire situation fishing line will do fine for now  

you're a conservative??? :o


I KILL!!! :asha'man/2:

/me wonders on Saladin's reasoning? :huh:

I meant to quote lanair

Oh. LOL Makes much more sense now.

Ugh... another flaming liberal.  Those people are ruining our country (with the moron Dybya's help).  LOL  

might i point out that the national debt has gone up under *every* *single* republican president we've had in the....if I remember right, past 5 decades? Might I point out that our current president knows as much about the world--and everything else for that matter--as a three year old? And that our VP is a Big Dick (think about it, technically he is). Republicans blow things up first and ask questions later. Republicans SUCK.  :angry:

oh, and saladin isn't the one with an obivously flaming homosexual avi  ;)  

come now there is nothing wrong with a little sucking on occasion :P

and dont pick on laniars avi.  i like it :)

wrong kind of sucking.  :hmmm:

:rolleyes:  dont get technical now

check your spelling of americans

nonono, its the asshole republicans that pull that crap. the dems arent so trigger happy.

they dont get a lot of vote in the US o' A eh?

bah, they won the fucking election...cept theres that bullshit electoral college thing that makes it so the majority doesnt necessarily win....its such crap. the dem candidate got more than half of the actual votes though.

what? how can that happen? dont you live in a democra....oh yea

its the stupidest fucking system ever....theres this thing called the electoral college. it assigns every state a certain number of votes based on population. Whoever gets the majority in each states gets *all* the votes from that state. Each state then has "electors" which go and place their votes based on how their state voted--though they arent even legally required to go the same way their state voted--and based on what those electors vote, we get a president. as such, its possible to have the majority vote not win the election.  :angry:  

Heh. Isn't "democracy" great.

Now, give me the world as my despotism and I'll make things fair.... starting with sending George Bush on holiday to Iraq. :D

wait till you have the 50,000*C's and high winds weather forcast

i wanna send my foot on a vacation straight to his ass first.  :angry:  

Oh, I'm sure I could arrange a little pre-holiday touring around the US... with him strapped to a lorry and free fruit handed out. ;)

pineapples?

ooh pineapple is yummy!  :)  

flying pineapple?

why throw it when you can eat it? if you wanna throw something, throw something crappy like tomatoes. they suck, but make a nice mess  :)  

yeah, but don't get any one you :)

i like pineapple juice but for some reason not pineapples; somthing about the texture. ok this is off topic

george bushs head looks like a pineapple, therefore pineapples are on topic.  :P  

he looks like a monkey. anyway lanair, how are liberals ruining America?

Well... let me just say I hate Bush more than almost any other politician.  ;)

And Liberals- too much spending for welfare/other social programs/higher taxes.  ;)  

and spending on social programs is wrong how? It's helping other people, not being selfish like conservatives usually are!!!

Well if you stopped giving welfare...people would have to go get jobs.  

or they'd die  but that really their problem isnt it?   :devil:

Yes some people should just die.  LIke drug dealers.

:blink: Uh...

how about the many kids who would contribute if given a chance? They are born into poverty and need all the help they can get

That's why we should kill all those people b/c they shouldn't be breeding anyway.

It is not the role of the government to be handing out free cash to the poor people.  I, as a tax paying citizen (well, not yet, but you get the idea), should not have to be forced by the government to support someone else.  If I want to donate money to a religious organization to help the poor, for instance, that should be my choice.  ;)

Which brings up another liberal philosophy- affermative action, which I also dislike.

*gives lanair a cookie*

action? like destruction? i liek that part

hey when the government gives tax cuts for the poor and not to the rich, and actually do something about the inner cities and educational systems then i won't support affirmative action. However that hasn't happened so i support it for obvious reasons

Affirmative action causes better qualified people to lose jobs to minority representatives.  It is discrimination, plain and simple, which is unconstitutional.  Everyone should be treated equally in the eyes of the government, regardless of their environment.

As to tax cuts for the rich, I'm not an economist, but it's designed to help the economy by increasing spending on the part of the wealthy, which in turn stimulates the creation of new employment opportunities.  Whether it really happens in life, I dunno, but it sounds like a good idea.  Besides, the rich get taxed too much already- what the contry needs is a fixed percent income tax instead of graduated (or at least a fairer graduated one).

*claps* bout time, our government wanted to raise some peopels income tax to 55% last year  :angry: they needed a right old kicking

however the government has failed us minorities, you have to admit Bush treats the rich white people better than the poor minorities I live in Harlem, nothing has happened here. There's some guy norh of here who is trying to revitalize Harlem, however he is getting no help from the local, state and federal governments which have let Harlem go to waste.

Affirmative Action gives minorities a chance which they would never get because of where we come from. We might be better qualifies, but because of the challenges we go through we never get to show our stuff, especially since people see us and think that we are lazy people who will turn to a life of crime.

If you have two runners who have the same speed but one has a better form than the other, who would you choose?

You would choose the one with bad form, because you can teach him a better one and he'll kick the other's ass

 

*puts hand up* what is affirmative action?

Affirmative action is racism against white people, by white people.

Giving ourselves a tase of our own medicine, or attempts to reconcile the wrongs of the past gone badly awry?

Self-flagellation.  Why should I have to pay for mistakes someone in the past made?  <_<

Saladin- Bush is a flaming idiot who has no clue on how to run the country well.  And I believe the state and local governments, particularly the latter, should be more responsible for the well-being of the citizens in your idea.  How far that aid should go is an opinion question, but the Federal government should not be responsible for providing it.

no, affirmative action alone doesn't--affirmitive action taken to too extreme of a level does that. When kept it check, it's a good idea, but the problem is that it often *is* taken too far and results in reverse discrimination.


It's been tried and failed. Remember hearing about the "trickle down theory" versus the "pump-priming theory"? This is essentially the same thing. Give the rich more money and in theory eventually the poorer well get the money as well. It failed miserably. Giving money to the lower classses has always shown quicker, better results.

Fixed income taxes are shit. There's people that can barely afford to live as is, so for it to work the rate would have to be insanely low. Then again, there's people here--plenty--that have more money than they know what to do with. My dad went to one guys house once who had a life sized chessboard complete with human players, a 5 car garage, olympic sized swimming pool, etc etc etc. The list goes on. You can't fathom how much money people truly have until you see some of these places. They can quite clearly afford to give more to the government, which does need money to keep things going. The real problem is just that taxes get spent on all the wrong things. We're too busy fighting countries and helping other countries without looking at our home situation first.

Exactly.
The problem isn't with taxing people more/less or whatever. It's about using the taxes that have been collected to make the damned country a better place.
Going off to invade Iraq in an effort to gain even more control over the world is not what George & co should be doing. But because their aim is world domination that's what they're doing, and meanwhile the rest of the US suffers.

why are we helping isreal now? i'd say leave there and fix the US

a big example of that was Reaganomics, where Reagan used that theory. It led us into the biggest deficit in history

now? no now in that. a large part of the american population and a lot of sitters are jewish...answer

Is that bad?  I read an interesting editorial stating that by doing that, Reagan  ensured that the government would never again spend a lot of money on social issues (i.e. New Deal or Great Society).  The defecit was a marker of his political sucess.  Interesting...  :unsure:


And I hate to say this, but I actually agree with all of you on foreign policy.  Sad... for me to not take the opposite side.  :(

And frag- if a person has a lot of money, why should he be targeted to suffer higher taxes?  I mean more like the middle class sufferes from graduated income tax- the super rich could pay 99% tax and live, and the current poor people get off with a tiny tax (granted, they don't have too much money, but still).  It's the middle class which supports the government financially, and they deserve a break.  

yeah and they are loud and annoying.  <_<  

probably by some Republican who didn't want to admit Reagen screwed up


we can't have everyone agree otherwise it won't be a good debate

Fine- time to support Israel.  I make a good Devil's Advocate anyways.  :P

We seem to be on the bad sides of every nation in the Middle East, except Israel.  They are the only shred of territory that supports us, and if they die, we lose our only ally.  Besides, the Western Powers (who, incidentally, are much more important than the Middle Eastern countries right now) would be totally offended if we let Israel die.  And the Arabs still wouldn't appreciate us for it!  ;)  

they wont die.  they are kickass fighters.

we had to do this in school for a few months, everything we were told was biased to the Arabs...i cant help the way i was taught  :rolleyes:  

we're the only country who likes Israel at this point in time


Fire is right, after all they did destroy 3 different armies in 6 days

ok. so let them defend themselves. or just have the western powers support them so mcuh then.  ;) too lazyt to quote lanair on that one

how so?
 

The Western Europeans support Israel, and since they have no plans on providing aid to anyone, they expect us to defend the place.  LOL