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go to dunkin donuts and ask for vanilla chai. then you'll understand.  :)

lanair-if you have a mac, the best way to get a screenshot would be to destory your computer with a sledge hammer and go buy a nice new compy with an athlon 64 fx.

thats a code phrase for piece of crap

I would not say it is crap, especially as it is the best processor available. BUT i would say it is comparible to throwing money into a black hole just to see what would happen.  It is stupid to buy one now, because there are only a few (if any) apps out right now that support 64-bit.  It is better to wait until 64-bit apps come out then with the money you saved to get one you can get an even faster one that is more upto date.
Don't waste your money.


Sorry to hear about that Killumall, hope things improve for you.  Age3 is still beta and is total crap right now.  About the most fun thing happening is (relatively) mass attacks on some people. Thats about it.  I wish sab was back :(

don't say those evil things! sab shal never return! MWAHAHAHAHA!

did i say that out loud? :paranoid:

That sucks killumall, hope things turn out for the best and you come back soon.

*cough*

in benchmarks, an athlon 64 fx with a 1 ghz handicap schooled the pentium 4 extreme edition-which was released as a response the the athlon 64--in about 75% of the benchmarks. piece of crap you say? then i'd hate to hear what you have to say about pentiums.....

frag, give me actuall scores, and show me where i can find it, who did it, the machines they used, etc.

(http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/UT1.jpg)
(http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/3dmark.jpg)
A CPU and a game benchmark, i think it is clear who the winner is.
 

ok, lets look at that, first, what were the rest of the stats of the computers those tests were run on?

why is there an amd athon processor image on the upper right of both of those pictures?

what is the link to the sit you got those from?

you can't take random information at face value, anyone with a spreadsheet could make that

and 3DMark has different parts to the test i believe, there's many different programs thats used in it, then one overall mark that comes from a genearl score throught

how about hyper-threading? were the applications used to test the processors able to use hyper-threading?

i'll try and find some random spreadsheets of myown that will go here:

AND OH MY GOD I JUST NOTICED THIS, THOSE P4's were being run on 200 fsb's, WHAT THE HELL IS THAT most run at 800 FSB right now, mine is a year old and runs at 533

See the tomshardware logo? Those are from www.tomshardware.com -- a site that is *well* known to be biased in favor of intel. Either way, give me to late tonight to find the magazine I saw it in. They listed the full configuration for both systems they used (and i assure you, the ones I'm thinking of were using an 800mhz bus) and the pentium 4 EE lost in most.

http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee (http://www.digital-daily.com/cpu/athlon64fx-p4ee)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/Comanche4.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/D3Dmark03.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/AquaMark3triscore.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/AquaMark3-2t.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/Q3Quaver1280max.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/RTCW.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/VulpineGLmark.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/Doom3alpha.gif)

(http://www.3dnews.ru/documents/6120/AntiPlanet.gif)

AND I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT that Hyvry1 cut out the fact that the black athlon was overclocked

P4 EE is the newest processor, why not test it against AMD's latest the FX-53, not the FX-51.
The AMD logo in the corner is to state the review type, in this case it is the FX-53 review from tomshardware.com
Maybe i should cut the o/c one out, the FX-53 still beats it.

I am very sure the 200fsb is a typo, the P4 would not even register as 3.4GHz EE if it wasn't.

tomshardware is one of the or maybe the most reputable benchmark people, they always give unbiased reliable information.  valve went to tomshardware to do there HL2 benchmarks, many companies work with tomshardware.  Tomshardware sponsor many events and pre-launch games.

I used the CPU bench because that tests the CPU mostly.  

link: http://www.tomshardware.com (http://www.tomshardware.com)

The system set-up:
Intel:
Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 3.4 GHz (2 MB L3-Cache)
Asus P4C800-E Deluxe
Asus 9800xt 128Mb
Corsair 1Gb RAM DDR400
DX9.0b
WinXPpro

AMD:
Athlon FX-53 (2400 MHz 1MB L2 cache)
Asus SK8V
Asus 9800XT 128Mb
Corsair 1Gb RAM DDR400
DX9.0b
WinXPpro

probably the FX-53 was not out when they did their benchmarks

the only people i completely trust for benchmarks is Maximum PC, and unfortunately they don't have their test results online.

You need to save the image then upload it or it will mess up like it has for you.

I am more interested in games and 3D performance for high-end CPUs, if i wanted to run MS Word i would just use a 300MHz CPU.

for the graphics benchmark the P4 won

as well as audio, video, and application

the newest P4 had a surprisingly terrible score in games, worse than previous p4's so i'm thinking it may have some bugs that need to be worked out, applications is much more than just word, most people don't bother with multiple computers and the p4 shines in everything but games, unfortunately i don't have the one source i trust for benchmarks infront of me, or within walking distance, and i'm not going back to my house just to start quoting fps

and i would like to point out, the previous grading system for the athlons, 3200+, 3400+, etc., was souch a load of crap, it's about time they grew up  

Yeah i agree with that, but the one thing that makes the FX a better choice is that for a price of 1 P4 3.4EE system you could build a dual FX system and that would beat any of those systems listed.

that depends on where you live and if your willing to look around, you can find some grea deals on OEM CPUs

i get them. those are the benches im referring to  :)  I'll get em later tonight after i get off work.

topic split up and moved here due to the computeryness of the discussion :)

ah, here we are. Looks like the FX 51 won in about 2/3s of the benchmarks. Some are by an inch, but plenty are by a mile too....

*grumble* need hosting. stupid crap bpsite doesnt like my pic.

P4 3.4EE is Intels fastest lets use AMDs fastest, the FX-53 not the 51.  
Also the FX has support for 64-bit software, Windows XP 64-bit comes out in 2 months.  The P4 won't even run it.

the bench I have is intel 3.2 vs amd 2.2. and they threw an athlon 2200 on just for fun.
oh, ut2k4 has a 64bit version available i believe.  :)
oh, and another thing--hyvry, intel *does* make 64 bit cpus, you just dont hear much about em. i dont remember if the xeon is 64bit off the top of my head, think the itanium is 64bit though.

The Intel ones cost soooooo much. The Itanium is 64-bit.

Yes there is a 64-bit UT, but that was a test version and not retail.  Expect retail 64-bit games end of this year/beginning next year.

The 53 is 2.4GHz.  
 

The AMD 64bit runs far far faster than a P4 even in 32bit mode....
But its really not worth getting one until a 64bit Windows has been released...

Yep, in 2 months time Windows XP 64-bit will come out.

I still won't touch one until 64-bit games come out (to the public), but if it was a choice between the FX-53 and the P4 3.4EE i would take the FX-53.

This is what I was wondering about... do I get £200 for a nice ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe with an AMD Athlon XP3200 400FSB 512 Cache Barton, or save up more like £300-£400 for an AMD 64bit mobo and proccessor?

save up for the Athlon 64. Definitely. You'll be thanking yourself once more 64bit programs are available. anyway.....I got my own hosting now. Anyone needs space lemmy know, but I only have 1 GB banwidth monthly.

(http://www.fortfoster.net/IMG_0324.JPG)

oops, just noticed its a p4c, not p4ee. oops. still nice scores though, specially since you said the ee ran worse.  :)  

I have info to why the P4 has a 200fsb in the tests.  It is because it does have a 200fsb and the P4 quad pumps it to 800fsb, rather like what AMD does and did, now Intel have decided to use it.

Before I even think about getting a 64bit... someone find out how much 64bit Windows will be please...

free if you have a good connection.....  ;)  

Pentiums suck.
Athlons suck.
Get a Cyrix!

LOL

/me doesn't know what Cyrix is :mellow:
I don't think any one said this, but if I remember correctly (which happens too far and few between) the Intel 64-bit runs 64-bit (duh), but the AMD 64-bit runs both 64 and 32 bit
and you have GOT to love the ungodly amount of cash of what, three levels?  

too bad macroshit microsoft has a deal to hold back it's 64-bit OS until Intel has it's 64-bit processor ready

Note: I didn’t check any source (just cuz, and it’ll be a few year till I get to that sort of ‘hard-core’ processor)
Another Note: I also like AMD over Intel, so sue me… :ph34r:  

meh, i don't know anything about this stuff, but my uncle works for intel, so i'm a little biased :P

mine works for intel too. i dont like intel though.  ;)  

can we finish this arguement quickly? at some point i might be building my own computer from scratch, and id like to know which of these i should use.

Well when the price for 64Bit Windows is shown to me, il choose between an Athlon 64 or an Athlon XP...

a lot. i think its 500+. they decided to try out intels method of ridiculous prices to sort out the hardcore users from the everyday users.

Jesus Christ!!!! An Athlon XP 3200 Barton will do me then.

hmm.
of the ones less than $200, what's the best? or should i just stick with my pentium 4?

keep in mind you get an amd, youre gonna need new mobo and ram too....and hafta reinstall windows and all...
that said, i dunno how the 64 2800 stacks up against the 3200 / 3200-400. if you dont want the 64, the choise between 3200/3200 400 is based on your mobo. if your mobo does 400 fsb, get the 400. if not, the standard 3200. 400 will be a better performer with the right board.

ah.

was there any english in there? :(  

nope, he's in his own world again :P

Sorry, it just got longer and longer as I went…this has a lot of my computer hardware experience poured into this post.
If you don’t care about computers and such shut up and post nothing of this posts length you damn post junky :angry:
On with the post!

It’s NOT all about the CPU you know, all the pieces work in concert.
Any major upgrade (to me anyways) normally has these:
CPU (processing output, not always just Mhz/Ghz)
Motherboard (for the new CPU) fsb (front side bus) is a good thing
Note: If you really have to upgrade you probably can’t but a new/semi-new Intel chip in the old motherboard anyway.
RAM (to match the CPU/motherboard) make sure it’s what the motherboard can take.
Note:  You can have anywhere from 1 to 4 sticks of RAM depending on the motherboard.  RAM likes to be alone or in pairs. 512Mb +512Mb :D cha-ching!
Note: I know where I am, I can get motherboard/CPU combos; some are quite good…just make sure you look at all the specs.
Case (cuz you probably changed the motherboard type; ATX,AX, est.)
Power supply (for the new motherboard/ more power to run your new goodies)
Note: You can sometimes get good deals on Case/Power supply combos

Note: no-name brands aren’t normally a good thing; they’re cheap ($$$) because they’re just that…cheap (crap) >.>

Not so, just as long as the processor can run in 32-bit, you can run your old operating system (windows), even if you buy a new hard drive you can still transfer it all over.  Some hard drives come with a program that moves it all over (operating system and *chough* other files) for you (western digital for example)
Note: you can have 4 IDE devises, hard drives / CD drives / DVD drives (you get the picture…)

Check http://www.tomshardware.com  (http://www.tomshardware.com)for some good info, and check out stores where you live.  Ask for when they’re getting a shipment of new stuff, AKA when the prices for the non-leading edge goods go down.  You don’t want do this kind of costly upgrade often.  I see it as everything in the computer is good quality so there’s no bottle neck and so I’m getting everything out of all the parts that spent money on; and not end up broke when I could have wauted a week or month and gotten the same thing but much lower price.  I’m ‘thrifty’…ok I’m cheap cuz I don’t have the cash to go around throwing it at random people’s heads.

I sure as hell can’t buy the 64-bit processors… too much green ($$$).  I normally have second-rate equipment, then upgrade when either I’ve run it into the ground or when it just doesn’t cut it anymore.  AKA, can’t play a new game that I really want to play.  

Omg…

anytime you change mobos, you need to reinstall. sometimes on a fluke things will still work, especially if its the same chipset, otherwise you'll get all kinds of errors.

*cough* tomsbullshit.com? theyre heavily biased against AMD and ATi...they make them look bad every chance they get. wouldnt use their scores to compare *any* products.

;) then it's kind'a funny that I'm running three AMD ATI computers...  :o
well ya... if you don't install the driver for the new motherboard it's not gun'a work...
the IDE, the chip set, processor, communication ports, universal serial bus… I mean, look at the device manager; most of that stuff will change

so, it can be done, it might not be easy.  And hell, if it’s a just built computer you might as well install clean, cuz that’s the only time windows works its ‘best’ (I use the term loosely … very loosely)

ok, ive got some fairly fucking good news for me. im going to tennessee to visit my grandparents for the easter weekend....thingy. anyways, my uncle and his family are going to be there, and it turns out that he works for a computer company and can get us some stuff for free! anyways, one of the things im desperatly in need of is a decent video card. right now, im stuck with an old geforce 4. so anyways, could somebody give me a first, second, and hopefully third choice for decent video cards? i was talking to this one guy, and he said RAM type had something to do with it...dunnoh what he was talking about. anyways, if it does end up helping, my computer uses DDR ram.

1: Radeon 9800pro
2: Radeon 9800
3: Radeon 9600xt

If want to play DX9 games like HL2 or use Pixel shader 2 with minimal hit on fps get a Radeon.

yeah, the guy i talked to said to make sure not to buy one with "se" or something like that at the end of it.
what does that mean?

He was right to tell you that.  se uses a half bandwidth for the 9200se and 9600se they have 64-bit, the 9800se has 128-bit.  Avoid them.  They are poor performing cards.

BTW: I use a 9600xt Fireblade/Atlantis/Turbo model.  532/650 non o/c.

i understand all of that first sentence about what you'd prefer. i know that o/c=overclock, but what's the 532/650?
and please remember, im just now getting into working with computers, so my knowledge is very, very limited, especially in the area of technical terms.

It is 532 core speed and 650 memory speed, this is in MHz.  This is the stock speed for the Fireblade 9600xt.

ah, so that's the speed of your card? i think i get it then.
is that a decent speed?
also, im somewhat torn between two ideas; I could eithe 1)  Get a faster Pentium 4 (2.3 Ghz is fast now, right?) or 2) I could keep the one that I have now which is 2 Ghz, and get a better cooling system and o/c it.

PROCESSOR: Intel PENTIUM 4 3.20 GHz 800Mhz FSB
SYSTEM RAM: 1GIG PERFORMANCE PC-3200 DDR RAM
VIDEO CARD: ATI RADEON 9800 PRO w/256MB
HARD DRIVE: 120 GIG 7200RPM SATA HARD DRIVE
CD/DVD DRIVE 1: NEC 8X DUAL FORMAT DVD BURNER
CD/DVD DRIVE 2: NONE
CASE: NZXT GUARDIAN SUPER TOWER W/400 WATT PSU
SOUND: ONBOARD 6-CHANNEL 3D SOUND
KEYBOARD: LOGITECH USB KEYBOARD
MOUSE: LOGITECH CORDLESS OPTICAL MOUSE
MODEM/LAN: ONBOARD 10/100 NETWORK SUPPORT
GAMESHADOW: FREE 1 YEAR SUBSCRIPTION TO GAMESHADOW
O/S: MICROSOFT WINDOWS XP HOME
SPECIAL OFFER: INSTANT $50 SAVINGS! LIMITED TIME ONLY!
hehe, that's close to what id like to have in a computer.
AND IT'S 1500 FUCKING DOLLARS!
*spleen explodes* maybe if i built it myself, used the mouse and keyboard i have now, and transfered windows xp from this computer to new one, i could slim down the price a bit.
 

:miffed: a bit? I think you can do a whole lot better then that, price wise that is

yeah, and i figure if i take up prostitution, that might help some to.
but yeah.
so, that's a radeon 9800, at least 256 more mb of ddr ram, maybe a new processor if im lucky.
ill see what i can get my uncle to dig up for me.

The 9800pro is a very nice card, look at the 128MB version if you are trying to save a bit of money the difference between the two is minimal/ no difference at all.

Also home build the comp, it is loads cheaper.

Is that version of XP your transferring one that came with your current system or did you get that seperate, and is it a full retail/upgrade retail?

unfortunatly, im not sure. i got this computer two years ago as a gift. but im pretty sure that it came with the system. and it's full retail.

When you say came with the system, does it have the original MS disks or the disks that are specific to that computer?

unfortunatly, it has neither. everything important was lost well within 3 months of it's life.
but if i bought a bigger case, and put this motherboard in with a newer one with more memory, wouldnt i still be able to run windows off of it?
or idk, maybe im mixing things here...

If it is specific for the computer you got it with, it won't run another computer.  OEM versions of XP are non transferrable, also the software is taylor made for that system not another.

so i guess that just taking the mother board off of this computer and putting it in the new computer along with a new mother board wouldnt run windows?

eh....what? taking your old mb and putting it in a comp with a new mb?
/me is very confused  :unsure:  

You cant have 2 Mobos in one PC... Less its a big big big industrial PC.

ack! my internet doesnt want to work right now. it's usually slower than dial up, and most of the time pages dont even load!
in relation to this conversation however:
ah man, i was almost sure you could do that :(  

Nice new ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe SKTA NVNorce2ST ATX 8xAGP Giga LAN, SATA, Firewire, 6 channel Audio, USB2 Dual chan. DDR +WiFi slot (up to DDR400)
Athlon XP 3000+ Barton Core 400mhz
Radeon 9600XT
1 Gig Kingston HyperX Gaming RAM

Thats what im buying.

That is a very nice set-up.

Ta, its gonna have to come in bits though, Mobo and Proccessor first, then Radeon or RAM for me BDay and the other just after.

don't buy windows... talk to me if you want info.
what a waste of good cash on such bad trash.
normaly I'd say power to the geeks, but bill takes it quite a bit too far... :(  

you could bag the whole idea and get a rock and chisel for your birthday

you know, this computer is so fucked up anyways from all the weird stuff that's probably happened to it, im better off just saving the keyboard, monitor, speakers, and RAM, and scratching the rest of it. 'cept for maybe the processor, ill probably sell that.

A lot of places will take the working computer parts and you might get a tax right off.  Though the place by my house only takes working computers…

Do you guys know if its possible to run a game in 64bit mode without having 64bit Windows?